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Death · Lecture 7 of 26 · 46:38
Lecture 7: Plato, Part II: Arguments for the Immortality of the Soul
Study guide
What this lecture covers
Having introduced Plato's theory of Forms in the previous lecture, Kagan turns to the heart of the Phaedo: Socrates' arguments that his soul will not only survive his body's death but exist forever. The lecture explains why this needs separate argument even for a dualist (since the soul could still die along with the body), then reconstructs and critiques three of Plato's arguments in turn.
By the end, you should be able to state each argument's premises, explain Kagan's objection to each, and see how each new argument responds to the weaknesses of the one before it.
Key ideas
- Why immortality needs its own argument: even if the soul is a distinct, non-physical thing, interactionist dualism leaves open the possibility that it is destroyed at the same time as the body.
- The argument from the nature of the forms: forms are eternal and non-physical, and only the eternal/non-physical can grasp the eternal/non-physical, so the soul (which grasps forms) must itself be eternal and non-physical.
- 'It takes one to know one' fails as a general rule: Kagan objects that this premise is false in general (zoologists aren't cats, doctors studying corpses aren't dead), so Plato needs a special reason it holds for forms, which the dialogue doesn't supply.
- The argument from recycling: things are made of pre-existing parts that outlast them (like a car's parts), so if the soul is one of our parts, it should exist before birth and after death.
- Recycling doesn't cover every part: Kagan objects that not every part of something existed before it or survives it (a heart is created with the body and decomposes with it), so recycling alone doesn't show the soul is a 'recycled' part.
- The argument from recollection: we can only be reminded of something, like a photograph reminding you of a friend, if we were previously acquainted with it; since nothing in this world is a perfect form, our ability to think of perfect forms must come from acquaintance with them before birth.
- Kagan's objection to recollection: it isn't obvious we need direct prior acquaintance with perfection to think about it; we might simply extrapolate toward 'perfectly straight' from imperfect straight things encountered in this life.
Walkthrough
Why the soul's existence doesn't guarantee immortality (0:01)
Kagan recaps Plato's metaphysics (eternal, non-physical, unchanging Forms) and explains the worry raised by Socrates' friends: maybe distancing the soul from the body should stop short of full separation, since bodily death might take the soul down with it.
The argument from the nature of the forms (14:24)
Kagan reconstructs the argument in three premises and identifies its weak link, the claim that only the eternal/non-physical can grasp the eternal/non-physical. He argues this 'like knows like' principle is false as a general rule, using zoologists, doctors and cross-cultural scholars as counterexamples.
The argument from recycling (24:38)
Using the analogy of a car built from parts that existed beforehand and get reused afterward, Kagan presents Plato's claim that the soul, as one of our parts, should likewise predate birth and outlast death. He objects using the example of the heart, a body part that neither predates the body nor long outlasts it, showing that recycling doesn't apply to every part.
The argument from recollection (32:51)
Kagan explains how being reminded of something (like a photograph reminding you of a friend) requires prior acquaintance with it, then reconstructs Plato's claim that since nothing in this world is a perfect form, our capacity to think about perfect forms must come from acquaintance with them in a prior existence. He closes by questioning whether direct prior acquaintance is really necessary, or whether we might instead extrapolate toward perfection from imperfect examples encountered in this life, a question the next lecture will pursue.
Before you watch
- This lecture builds directly on Lecture 6's introduction of Plato's theory of Forms.
- Continue reading Plato's Phaedo alongside this lecture, since Kagan is closely reconstructing its arguments.
Check your understanding
- Why doesn't establishing that the soul exists and is non-physical automatically establish that it survives the death of the body?
- What is Kagan's objection to the premise that 'the eternal and non-physical can only be grasped by the eternal and non-physical'?
- Using the heart as an example, explain why the argument from recycling doesn't show that the soul must be one of our pre-existing, surviving parts.
- What role does prior acquaintance play in Plato's argument from recollection, and what alternative explanation does Kagan suggest for how we can think about perfect forms?
Vocabulary
- immortality (noun)
- The state of existing forever without ending.
Plato argues for the immortality of the soul. - eternal (adjective)
- Existing without beginning or end.
The Forms are described as eternal. - reconstruct (an argument) (verb)
- To lay out an argument's premises and conclusion clearly.
Kagan reconstructs Plato's argument step by step. - premise (noun)
- A statement assumed true and used to support a conclusion.
Each argument rests on several premises. - 'it takes one to know one' (phrase)
- The idea that only something of a certain kind can understand or recognize that kind.
Plato's argument relies on a version of 'it takes one to know one'. - counterexample (noun)
- An example that shows a general claim is false.
Zoologists are a counterexample to 'it takes one to know one'. - predate (verb)
- To exist before something else in time.
The recycling argument claims the soul must predate the body. - decompose (verb)
- To break down into simpler parts.
A body decomposes after death. - acquaintance (noun)
- Direct prior familiarity or contact with something.
Recollection requires prior acquaintance with the forms. - extrapolate (verb)
- To reason from known examples toward a broader or more extreme conclusion.
We might extrapolate toward perfection from imperfect examples. - recollection (noun)
- The act of remembering something previously known.
Plato's argument from recollection claims we remember the forms. - weak link (noun)
- The most questionable or easily challenged part of an argument.
Kagan identifies the weak link in each argument. - unchanging (adjective)
- Staying exactly the same over time.
The Forms are described as unchanging. - zoologist (noun)
- A scientist who studies animals.
Zoologists study cats without being cats themselves. - cross-cultural (adjective)
- Relating to or comparing different cultures.
Cross-cultural scholars study societies they are not part of. - outlast (verb)
- To continue existing longer than something else.
Some parts outlast the object they belong to. - predecessor (noun)
- Something that came before another thing.
The engine may be seen as a predecessor part of the car. - scholar (noun)
- A person who studies a subject in depth.
Scholars debate how to read the dialogues of Plato. - grasp (understand) (verb)
- To mentally understand or take hold of an idea.
The mind can grasp perfect forms through recollection. - perfect (form) (adjective)
- Complete and without any flaw or defect.
Nothing in this world is a perfect circle.
Chapters
- 0:00 Chapter 1. Review of Plato's Heaven: Platonic Forms
- 4:13 Chapter 2. Concerns and Issues Leading to the Development of Platonic Forms
- 14:17 Chapter 3. The Argument from the Nature of the Forms
- 24:33 Chapter 4. The Argument from Recycling
- 33:33 Chapter 5. The Argument from Recollection
- 43:54 Chapter 6. Do Plato's Arguments Suffice?
From the YouTube description
Death (PHIL 176)
The discussion of Plato's Phaedo continues, presenting more arguments for the existence and immortality of the soul. One such argument is "the argument from the nature of the forms," which states that because the forms are non-physical objects and cannot be grasped by something physical like the body, it follows that they must be grasped by the soul which must be non-physical as well. This argument is followed by the "argument from recycling" and "the argument from recollection."
00:00 - Chapter 1. Review of Plato's Heaven: Platonic Forms
04:13 - Chapter 2. Concerns and Issues Leading to the Development of Platonic Forms
14:17 - Chapter 3. The Argument from the Nature of the Forms
24:33 - Chapter 4. The Argument from Recycling
33:33 - Chapter 5. The Argument from Recollection
43:54 - Chapter 6. Do Plato's Arguments Suffice?
This course was recorded in Spring 2007.
← Lecture 6: The Cartesian Argument Refuted; Plato's Forms, Part I · Lecture 8: Plato's argument for the soul's simplicity →
